View source for Snow Gate Round 3 ~ the Toad is Hurt

'''Continued From [[The Toad Shows Contempt]]'''

==Summary==

The dust devil again stuns the toad and the rest of the party move forward to engage in melee.

==[https://juvenis-campaign.blogspot.com/2019/01/snow-gate-round-3-toad-is-hurt.html Original Page]==

[https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjxbKZHBs3BdchtTspcymm8TE1Jc6BY06TTFSxpNjEQs90w3Zm-D1xZ4R6IDveWXFyjhjKCzjO625axRfVGEWB7Xl5HA8QCUFttmSm7WGqWwh6wHk6tykkw4mEO86lhd7NeaaN-ZeqP1gI/s1600/Snow+Gate+Round+3a.jpg Ice toad]

'''The DM:''' The party has this move in hand.  Go ahead and act as you will.  Please don't forget that dagger roll, Mikael.  And remember, Engelhart; the dust devil moves only one hex per round, but it will attack if it is adjacent to the creature.

X.P. so far:

[https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg52B_TPK-ZTv2zBc_Thq7yQbqVkawGAQwx7qhiA2JNnQ17Yf5aTJYV9PlWELKVuQzS8aGpaWRLNaB4PWbAGtxw1tkjsqNS8Hp9RX7WQkZkWyAN3I90PvvN8CFKr7nFqpe2A2TlJgfAvtE/s1600/X.P.+Round+3.jpg Current XP totals]

'''[[Engelhart Askjellson|Engelhart]]:''' Alexis: regarding the spell, should I take it that you're stating errata? Because the wiki clearly indicates "move 6 hexes and attack one hex (the same it occupies)" rather than the opposite you've just written.

Pending your answer, I'll take the meantime to effect the slingshot that was prohibited from last round.

Attack Roll: 7 (-2): 5

Damage Roll: 3

I'm nothing if not constant in my inability to handle a sling.

'''The DM:''' Hah!

Well, the reason I write down the wiki is so that I can be forced to respect it. You are right. I should read my own spells rather than trust my memory.

You did need a round to load the slingshot before you could fire it.

As far as the sling goes, I'm sure that with levels you'll get the hang of it. Roll for your dust devil.

'''[[Engelhart Askjellson|Engelhart]]:''' I bid it onto 0906, right onto the thing's rump.

Attack Roll: 10 (hits AC 4)

Damage Roll: 7


...Maybe I got to stun it again?!

'''[[Engelhart Askjellson|Engelhart]]:''' I'm taking it you didn't count the sling as fired? In which case, I'll simply drop it and draw my Maul (3 AP).

There's bound to be more to this fight than just this lame old toad, we haven't even seen that other blink-ogre yet.

'''[[Mikael]]:''' Intelligence roll: 8

I move up towards 0812, I am unclear how close I can get.

Glad I didn't throw my magic weapon.

'''The DM:''' Sorry about the confusion.

I am clearly not reading close enough.

In the post, "Snow Drift," I see no references at all to a sling.

"The Toad Shows Contempt," I read this line: "Scratch the movement, since I remembered I do have my loaded sling in hand ..."

And I ruled that because the range on your spell is 30 feet, you must be within 6 hexes to attack with it, so you couldn't scratch the movement. And you corrected me about how fast the dust devil moves. Fair enough, all is good.

However, there seems to be some confusion about what it means to "load a sling." Maybe not, but just in case, I'll be pedantic. Loading a sling includes putting a stone in it, yes, but it also means whirling the sling sufficiently to give it the momentum, then picking your moment to fire it ... and then firing it. As a cleric, this takes TWO rounds. The first to "load" it, which means to get it going, and the second to let the bullet or stone go.

Okay, good. I read your statement that you had your loaded sling in your hand as, "I am readying my sling for firing." Since you clearly had not done that prior.

In the post above, "Round 3," Engelhart said, "I'll take the meantime to effect the slingshot that was prohitibed from last round." That sling shot was NOT prohibited. You READIED the sling shot last round. And I was explaining with my answer that "You did need a round to load the slingshot before you could fire it."

Which you did. SO, yes, now you can fire your sling, BECAUSE you loaded it last round. I did not explain it in more detail because I thought we already understood how the sling can be used to attack every other round, because it always takes a full round of preparation in order to fire it.

If we're good, you can now fire the sling you spent a round loading, rather than dropping it to pull your maul.

'''The DM:''' The toad was stunned by the second hit with the dust devil.

Mikael, when all is done, you find your dagger. And yes, remember to consider what environment you're throwing your weapons into.

Sorry, Mikael was cut off from the new map and I didn't even notice. On the map on the previous page, you're still in 0916. Moving to 0812 will take your full movement rate.

Waiting to hear from Embla, Lothar and Rob.

'''[[Mikael]]:''' I'll move to 0812. I thought it might take my full action.

'''[[Rob]]:''' I ready ly club and move to 0610.

'''[[Lothar Svensson|Lothar]]:''' I move up to hex 1111, leaving me with 1 AP.

'''[[Embla Strand|Embla]]:''' I move to 1010 and heft my axe.

'''[[Engelhart Askjellson|Engelhart]]:''' Egads, Alexis, do forgive me for that bit of entangled wiring.

I've had it readied from since *before* the fight began, the relevant comment standing on "At the Lake's Edge", December 14, 2018 at 11:37 AM.

You're not being pedantic or nitpicking at all, it is a lot to parse and clearness is most welcome, I did think I knew what was implied by loading the sling and then firing it: one round for loading, one for firing, all clear.

What was meant by "readying the sling" at that point now far removed in time was precisely to draw it from storage, load it and have it stand at 2AP away from a valid shot. Of course, in between I did end up casting the Dust Devil, to consequences I did not at all antecipate: what does happen to the sling in the meantime? Maybe I had to re-set it?

I'm sorry if that wasn't made clearer, the intent at the time was to give missile coverage to Embla as she advanced. Later on, I defaulted to the memory that the sling was still in my grasp, presuming it to be loaded as I had intended it to be.

'''The DM:''' So long as we understand in future that "loaded" means "spinning and ready to be let loose in the next seconds."

You do not need your hands to be empty, necessarily, when casting a spell; but much of the reason for requiring the sling not be fired every round is to clearly define hand-to-hand as the more effective combat strategy. Otherwise, as I learned decades ago, if you make missile weapons even half as effective as hand-to-hand, players will coward out every time.

With the sling doing half as much damage, half the time, the effectiveness of the sling is lowered enough that it encourages players to wade in and use their real weapons, supported by magic bonuses and strength ~ and thereby risking themselves. So I'm indifferent to the exact details of the sling's status with rock in or not. I want the effectiveness of the sling lowered.

Consider Mikael's daggers or Embla's javelin. The daggers are more expensive than a sling stone; Engelhart wouldn't care if a stone or a bullet was lost, but Mikael would care if his dagger was lost every time he threw one. Plus, he can carry less daggers. Embla can carry less javelins. They can throw them once a round, but the cost is prohibitive very quickly. It makes sense to realize, "damn it," and wade in.

But stones or bullets for slings, and arrows for bows, can last a long, long time. I make crossbows even more prohibitive. I like missile weapons, I make lots of room for their use; but I want players to risk being hurt. It makes a better game.

'''The DM:''' Catching up.

Up to Engelhart's last hit, the total damage was 20, and Engelhart's third hit with the devil stunned it again. Engelhart used 2 AP to fire the sling; I don't see another movement from him.

Okay, I've got everyone else's move. I'm setting up for the next round now.

'''[[Engelhart Askjellson|Engelhart]]:''' (Interesting digression, nonetheless, about your take on missile fire needing to have its effectiveness cut short to make for a better game, some food for thought...)

'''The DM:''' [Whenever possible, I want my reasoning for these things on the table. Point in fact, as a fighter climbs in levels, they increase in attacks per round. A fighter with two attacks per round could load and fire the sling in one round; a bow too; it's physically possible, but the idea is that you have to be really combat-able to accomplish it. A cleric wouldn't become that]

By the way, Lothar should look at this table on the Tao blog (I haven't yet put this on the wiki, though I should): https://tao-dnd.blogspot.com/2014/07/fighting-more-often.html. At 4th, he should be getting 5 attacks every 4 rounds now. That means on the 4th round where he has been able to attack (it resets with every new combat), he rolls an extra to hit die (with each attack costing only 1 AP).

I wrote that rule before making the assassin a fighter. Because the assassin has other skills, and requires less x.p. to climb levels, I'm going to rule that assassins do improve their number of attacks, but ONE XP LEVEL BEHIND other fighters. Thus, Embla will get 5 attacks per 4 rounds at 5th level, not 4th.

The experience points have been added to the post above, and the next post is up.

'''Continued on [[Snow Gate Round 4 ~ the Toad is Smacked Around]]'''